Curse

RSGashapon · Dec 04, 2007, 09:56 AM // 09:56

You're steamrolling through an explorable zone or a dungeon. Everything's dying at your feet. Your heroes builds are working wonderfully. You take a few casualties, but they're light and easily remedied. A 15% DP here or there, worked off quickly due to the abundant mob counts.

You get to the boss. You put on the buffs. Celerity, Grail of Might. You wish you still had a good supply of CC's stashed.

The attack begins.

Super skills start casting, but they aren't your skills. The boss's HP bar twitches, yet doesn't falter. You start losing people. The nuker. The monk. There goes the tank. The MM drops and the survivors are awash in hostile minions.

The DP's rise. Grail and Celerity expire. Res shrine...

The boss has skills that hit for 100, 200, 300 damage, if not more! Your health after 60% is... under 200, if not for your armor. The odds favor the chea- *ahem* the boss, of course.

You're screwed. You fail. There aren't enough mobs left for the DP-reducing XP. Thanks Death Penalty! I couldn't lose you fast enough!

/resign
/sigh

I'm sorry, but this sequence of events takes place way, way too often in Guild Wars. Death Penalty is easy to lose, in the right situations, but in others it is nigh impossible. Once you have it, you're done. Game over man.

I know, I know. The Death Penalty mechanic can't be fully removed from the game. Balance issues and all that... *coughwhatbalance?!hack* But the way it is reduces can be altered. Instead of +75XP = -1%, why can't it be 1 Kill = -1%? Get rid of it faster, without buffs or scrolls, helpful as they are when you have them. Get back into the fight! The AI's already crippled, DP acts only as lead paint chips, or gas fumes.

One kill, one percent. It's simple math. Make the game fun again.

Discuss.

Wakka · Dec 04, 2007, 10:07 AM // 10:07

/really really not signed

Use protection spells to stay alive. If you want to remove DP quicker use consumables.

RSGashapon · Dec 04, 2007, 10:11 AM // 10:11

Two monks (hero or pug, doesn't matter), one healing, one healing/prot. Both dead.

Consumables are used up. Expired.

What now?

I've thought this scenario over many times, you didn't read the whole post.

Cebe · Dec 04, 2007, 10:19 AM // 10:19

What boss was it you were trying to kill?

Normal Mode or Hard Mode?

Removing DP is not the way forward, it's served it's purpose for the last 2 and a half years so far...

/not_signed

Squishy ftw · Dec 04, 2007, 10:20 AM // 10:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by RSGashapon

...

Discuss.

DP is fine as it is. You're much better off preventing DP.
Like, bring more passive defense, don't bring a tank(a warrior does damage!!!!), bring some shutdown if you know you'll encounter a boss that has the potential to hit for 200+.. Basically, prepare decently,check what you'll be facing, think about ways to counter it, and what'll kill it the fastest.

And on top of that, there even are consumables that help you prevent the gain of DP and there are plenty of DP removers around aswel.

And if you mention what boss it is you're having problems with and you give your party setup/builds, people can offer more help instead of talking about how DP should be removed..not..

/notsigned

RotteN · Dec 04, 2007, 10:23 AM // 10:23

i've killed dungeon bosses with my heroes/henchies at around 60DP.

It's the beauty of protective spirit : the more DP, the better it gets ^^

it's fine as it is, never bothered me much

/not signed

icedwhitemocha · Dec 04, 2007, 10:25 AM // 10:25

Prot spirit is gud in PvE!

Who knew?

Turbobusa · Dec 04, 2007, 10:30 AM // 10:30

Leeeeeeearn to play.
Sorry i don't usually agree with that kind of comments but come on... just throw a protective spirit and you'll be fine.
Concentrate the boss' fire on some tank at worst.
Debuff him.
keep him blind/knocked down/dazed...

...think?

Faer · Dec 04, 2007, 10:30 AM // 10:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by RSGashapon

Thanks Death Penalty! I couldn't lose you fast enough!

Try not getting it in the first place. I heard that's an effective strategy.

Wakka · Dec 04, 2007, 10:33 AM // 10:33

Quote:

I've thought this scenario over many times, you didn't read the whole post.

I did, I just think its entirley stupid that you want the GvG meta to take a radical change (probably for the worse) just so you can finish PvE? No thanks.

Toutatis · Dec 04, 2007, 10:36 AM // 10:36

IMO, things really start to get fun when the DP starts increasing. You have to start modifying your attack strategies on the fly, and see how well you can do when defence becomes more important than the general "kill kill kill" mentality that dominates most of PvE.

MirkoTeran · Dec 04, 2007, 10:37 AM // 10:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faer

Try not getting it in the first place. I heard that's an effective strategy.

QFT. Instead of crying for nerf learn to play better.

Wakka · Dec 04, 2007, 10:38 AM // 10:38

Quote:

IMO, things really start to get fun when the DP starts increasing. You have to start modifying your attack strategies on the fly, and see how well you can do when defence becomes more important than the general "kill kill kill" mentality that dominates most of PvE.

Agreed its only a good thing. It may even encourage some players to kite

System_Crush · Dec 04, 2007, 10:38 AM // 10:38

/not signed
There are a few glitches concerning death penalty in PvE though,

It should for 1 not be counted in aggro calculation.
A member of the party dies once, not even their fault; they where mobbed by their/someones pet, or the monk was dazed at the time.
In hard mode this is followed by that person dieing over and over again, because when given the choice mobs will gang up on them, as they have 25 less health than the other members of the team.

Now I use [skill=text]Death Pact Signet[/skill] on a number of my builds, I'm not stupid enough to use it in mid combat often, but if a monk dies the quickest rez in the game is a blessing to have.
But if everything not aggro-locked(basically all melee's if theres a AoEDoT ele in the team) starts attacking that monk, I have a problem.

Players in PvP can't see how much death penalty someone is suffering, it's a moral effect, unless mobs can read minds they shouldn't be able to read someone's moral either, so positive or negative moral effects should be left out of the aggro calculation, I just think it makes sense.

Also, WTB some AoE shutdown skills for monks in protection of smiting prayers with a reasonable cost/recharge. Healers should have the option to reduce the amount they have to heal by debuffing instead, this is something present in many games, why not in GW?

Turtle222 · Dec 04, 2007, 10:40 AM // 10:40

don't you think the reason you are dying is because you suck?

Edit: /notsigned + i agree 100% with toutatis

Lord Sojar · Dec 04, 2007, 10:41 AM // 10:41

/notsigned.... removing primary mechanics = BAAAAAAAAAAAD

isamu kurosawa · Dec 04, 2007, 10:42 AM // 10:42

Learn how to play something other than tanks and nukers or just take pain inverter and cheat right back.

Lord Sojar · Dec 04, 2007, 10:44 AM // 10:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by isamu kurosawa

Learn how to play something other than tanks and nukers or just take pain inverter and cheat right back.

LOL. I was more concerned with the...um...PvP dynamic, but well said. If you can't win fair, CHEAT! :P

fowlero · Dec 04, 2007, 10:45 AM // 10:45

PvE doesn't need more of its slight amount of challenge removed, sure its annoying but it happens and tbh i like how it works.

You seem intelligent enough to bring some shutdown builds to counter the boss, why not do it?

Mineria · Dec 04, 2007, 10:54 AM // 10:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by RSGashapon

You're steamrolling through an explorable zone or a dungeon. Everything's dying at your feet. Your heroes builds are working wonderfully. You take a few casualties, but they're light and easily remedied. A 15% DP here or there, worked off quickly due to the abundant mob counts.

You get to the boss. You put on the buffs. Celerity, Grail of Might. You wish you still had a good supply of CC's stashed.

The attack begins.

Super skills start casting, but they aren't your skills. The boss's HP bar twitches, yet doesn't falter. You start losing people. The nuker. The monk. There goes the tank. The MM drops and the survivors are awash in hostile minions.

The DP's rise. Grail and Celerity expire. Res shrine...

The boss has skills that hit for 100, 200, 300 damage, if not more! Your health after 60% is... under 200, if not for your armor. The odds favor the chea- *ahem* the boss, of course.

You're screwed. You fail. There aren't enough mobs left for the DP-reducing XP. Thanks Death Penalty! I couldn't lose you fast enough!

/resign
/sigh

I'm sorry, but this sequence of events takes place way, way too often in Guild Wars. Death Penalty is easy to lose, in the right situations, but in others it is nigh impossible. Once you have it, you're done. Game over man.

I know, I know. The Death Penalty mechanic can't be fully removed from the game. Balance issues and all that... *coughwhatbalance?!hack* But the way it is reduces can be altered. Instead of +75XP = -1%, why can't it be 1 Kill = -1%? Get rid of it faster, without buffs or scrolls, helpful as they are when you have them. Get back into the fight! The AI's already crippled, DP acts only as lead paint chips, or gas fumes.

One kill, one percent. It's simple math. Make the game fun again.

Discuss.

I hope you are not talking about normal mode, because then you failed big time.
We like the DP so it doesn't get to easy doing hardmode, since it makes it fun.
What is it worth without the a risk for that it can fail?

But I guess you prefer repair costs and an insane amount of potions used.
And if all then die... they are dead and stay dead till they zone out to an outpost.
Or you could have it hellish, if you character dies it gets deleted.
Things that have need made in some games, and guess what, some players love it.

So I can't see any reason for that DP should be removed or be made easy to get rid of. It already is, have a candy cane.
Out of candy canes, well thats just bad luck.
Try the trade channels in outpost, might be able to buy from someone there.